Thursday, May 8, 2008

COMING LIKE A THIEF IN THE NIGHT

I would like to discuss the Rapture of the Church and When it may occur

Please watch this Video.

http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=7e18e50b58eb7e0c6ccb

Matthew 24:35-48

No One Knows the Day or Hour 36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

My personal view of the Rapture is a pretrib. view. all the scriptures I do not know nor will I pretend to know. I hope I can write this is a way that it makes sense. I believe the church will be taken out before the great tribulation, maybe it is because I have read all the left behind books and saw all the movies and listened to the audio drama Cds. But from what I was taught the church is not mentioned after the 4th Chapter of the Book of Revelation. Now if I am correct there are two Comings of Christ the first being the Rapture where he will come to get his bride we who are born again, then after the great tribulation during the Battle of Amagedon Jesus will come back on a white horse with all the saints who died before and the ones who were taken in the rapture coming with him .And they call that the second coming of Christ.


Ok like I said I don't know all the verses, I welcome other view points as long as it is a friendly discussion. I will try to find some more verses to back up what I am saying.

I Thess 4:13-18

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Well lets discuss
Remember Larry Norman
http://youtube.com/watch?v=X1FcTKNXlO0

16 comments:

Maryb said...

Im not trying to be funny here I am very serious. If the rapture happen today what would happen to Chip? Do you think God will allow us to have our pets in heaven? I worry about that sometimes.

Anonymous said...

Mayrb: My wife worries about our dogs as well. I leave them in the hands of the Lord. I will be gone all day, so I will comment on this later.

Blessings on your day...

Anonymous said...

From Randy Alcorn article:


Q. Our beloved dog recently died. Should I correct my kids when they say they can't wait to play with Rocky again in heaven?

A. Humorist Will Rogers said, "If there are no dogs in heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." This statement was, of course, based on sentiment, not theology. However, it reflects something biblical: a God-given affection for animals.

That's why the question of whether pets will be in heaven is not, as some assume, stupid. Animals aren't nearly as valuable as people, but God is their maker and has touched many lives through them. It would be simple for him to re-create a pet in heaven if he wants to. He's the giver of all good gifts, not the taker of them. If it would please us to have a pet restored to the New Earth, that may be sufficient reason.

We know animals will be on the New Earth, which is a redeemed and restored old Earth, in which animals had a prominent role. People will be resurrected to inhabit this world. Romans 8:21-23 assumes animals as part of a suffering creation eagerly awaiting deliverance through humanity's resurrection. This seems to require that some animals who lived, suffered, and died on the old Earth must be made whole on the New Earth. Wouldn't some of those likely be our pets?

In her excellent book, Holiness in Hidden Places, Joni Eareckson Tada says, "If God brings our pets back to life, it wouldn't surprise me. It would be just like him. It would be totally in keeping with his generous character … Exorbitant. Excessive. Extravagant in grace after grace. Of all the dazzling discoveries and ecstatic pleasures heaven will hold for us, the potential of seeing Scrappy would be pure whimsy—utterly, joyfully, surprisingly superfluous. … Heaven is going to be a place that will refract and reflect in as many ways as possible the goodness of joy of our great God, who delights in lavishing love on his children."

In a poem about the world to come, theologian John Piper writes:


And as I knelt beside the brook
To drink eternal life, I took
A glance across the golden grass,
And saw my dog, old Blackie, fast
As she could come. She leaped the stream—
Almost—and what a happy gleam
Was in her eye. I knelt to drink
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there.


We needn't be embararassed either to grieve the loss of our pets or to want to see them again. If we believe God is their creator, that he loves us and them, that he intends to restore his creatures from the bondage they experienced because of our sin, then we have biblical grounds for not only wanting but also expecting that we may be with them again on the New Earth.

So let's not "correct" our kids when they pray they'll be able to see their pets again. The answer to that prayer is up to God. He loves to hear the prayers of his children, and there is scriptural reason to believe he may answer those prayers. Remember that our children's instinctive grasp of heaven—and what we should look forward to there—is sometimes better than ours.

Chosen

Maryb said...

Okie I look forward to hearing what you have to say about pretrib. Pretrib is not written in stone for me, I am searching I guess for answers, and some things there are just no answers for, but I look to forward to everyones view of pre, mid, or post tribulation. and why.

Anonymous said...

Rose Publishing has a very good laminated fold out called "Four Views on the End Times". You can get it in a good Christian book store and view it online.

Chosen

Anonymous said...

Here is a description from their site.I have the pamphlet.The photo is not pasting. You can go to Rosepublishing.com and search "End Times" and the pamphlet will come up.

Four Views of the End Times pamphlet
ISBN 10: 1596360895 ISBN 13: 9781596360891 Product Code: 350X
Price: $3.99
Four Views of the End Times pamphlet
So what does the Bible actually say about the end times leading up to the return of Jesus Christ? Historically, four views have predominated Christianity’s understanding. Finally, those four views are explained and illustrated in simple terms. CLICK ON PHOTO FOR DESCRIPTION OF THE 4 VIEWS, A LARGER PHOTO, AND SPECIAL OFFERS

Maryb said...

Chosen
Thank you for the information. I will check into it. Right now Chip and I are going to lay down, Depression has taken over today.

Anonymous said...

Tomorrow is a new day.
I hope you are getting enough amino acids...you can only get this from animal protein. I am concerned you are a vegetarian. That is not usually recommended for diabetics.
I hope you don't mind me telling you this.
I took a seminar 2 weeks ago with a Psychiatrist who practices alternative medicine and he said that depression is very common in vegetarians because they lack enough Amino acids to convert to neurotransmitters..these neurotransmitters affect the brain..

If you are not eating animal protein, you are not making enough neurotransmitters...

Hope you have a better day tomorrow.

Chosen

Maryb said...

Chosen I don't mind you saying that at all infact my doctor has said the same thing, but I honestly can not eat meat. or even gravy or anything made from animal. I tried one time to eat chicken and sorry to be so graphic, but threw up all over the table I just can not eat an animal. eww just the thought of it make my stomach turn,

Anonymous said...

Honestly, I started reading PP when they were into all the End Times stuff and I became so cross-eyed that I don't really know what I believe anymore.

I know what I am about to share isn't a very intelligent approach, but when you are completely confused... I think I may have found a solution after all: :-)

I kinda figured I would just live like He wasn't coming before the tribulation (That way I'd be prepared if He didn't come) and

If He does come before the tribulation, then woo-hoo! I'm outa here!

Either way, I just want to understand fully what it means to have that OIL IN MY LAMP cause whenever He comes, before, during, after... I know I need that OIL, so I figure that's my ticket, eh?

Maryb said...

I have always thought pre trib. but Iguess what it boils down to is live like Jeusu is coming tomrrow , But keep ourselves armored up in case we do have to go through the great tribulation,

Anonymous said...

WOW, I had this long post and I went to paste something and it disappeared!

Mary, I will e-mail you more about the amino acids...You can take "free form amino acids" and get them from Whole Foods.
You can make protein shakes with plain rice protein and some low sugar fruit and unsweetened rice milk or almond milk and sweeten with stevia. You need to eat every 3 hours and you need to have some protein. Even cottage cheese would be good.

ALso as I said with Lupus, since itis an autoimmune disease, you need to get off Gluten.
I bake all my own bread and pizza dough. The problem with Diabetes is that all these flours are high in sugar, so the best thing is to eat fish (can you do this) and much vegetables and salad. You can have the protein shakes in between meals as a snack.

I am telling you that depression is caused when the blood sugar drops and the brain needs "sugar". It reacts. I have low blood sugar and need to eat every 2 1/2 hours. If I go more, I start to get shaky and nervous and "out there".

Since you are diabetic and not eating enough protein you will go to states of hypoglycemia and then your brain will react with depression. . Try and see if when you get these low states it has been when you haven't eaten in several hours and your last meal had no protein.

Can talk one on one more with you.
Understand I am just trying to help.
Try what I am saying for just a week--

ABout Pre-trib, the Bible teaches this, but I persoanlly feel God will turn on the heat in believers lifes when the time gets closer for Christ's return. We are to be tested..

Since I am having a problem pasting from the net, I will put a quote in the next post.

Chosen

Anonymous said...

Question

Is the rapture before or after the seven-year tribulation?

Answer

It's become kind of popular today, in the last two or three years, to believe in the rapture occurring at the end of the tribulation. There has been three positions, historically, "pre-trib," "mid-trib," and "post-trib." What that means is the rapture occurs at the end of the tribulation: "post-tribulation;" the middle of the tribulation: "mid-tribulation;" the beginning of the tribulation: "pre-tribulation." Now if you wanted to catalog me I would have to claim to be a "pre-tribulationist"--I believe the Church will be taken out before the tribulation.

Now if you would like a full-length answer on that we have a series of tapes on that very subject, so I am not going into that other than to just give you two reasons, that I believe, are the most difficult arguments for a "post-tribulationalist" to deal with. If a person comes along, and this is popular today, there are a lot of people who want to go through the tribulation. We have got some sort of a martyr-complex. You know in a mechanized society, and a very high-powered society, and a very easy kind of existence, a lot of people kind of think that it is neat to go through the tribulation. They see the movie about "A Thief in the Night" and they can see themselves running from the beast and all this intrigue. Now I am saying this truly, because this is happening in the minds of--not the educational people, not the theology people, so much as it is a popular kind of a thing. I think Hal Lindsey's books, which took a firm pre-tribulational stand, forced some theologians out of the woodwork to write on a post-tribulational position. So you have the theological battle, and it is going on, on those two positions, but you have this new popular thing, and sometimes I will listen to those Christian television programs and they are talking about, "Well, you know I am not convinced that we are going to be taken out. I think we may go through....oh......." And it is all very dramatic.

Listen folks. I don't want to be there--it doesn't sound good to me at all. If I had my choice of being here with the beast or being in heaven with Jesus--it isn't even a question! Aside from that emotional argument which doesn't hold water--that's just me.

There are two primary things that you have to deal with if you are going to take a post-tribulation position:

1. The sheep and goat judgment. In Matthew, chapter 25, at the end of the tribulation period--Matthew 25, you have a judgment occurring. We know that it is at the end of the tribulation because it discusses the tribulation period in chapter 24. We know that the "abomination of desolation" occurs in the tribulation (24:15 and all these things and so forth), and then verse 31 of Chapter 25, "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory." Now what's that? That's not the rapture is it? That has got to be the Second Coming to set up the Kingdom--"when he comes in His glory to sit on His throne."

Now the post-tribulation position says this--watch--that at the end of the seven years there is a quick rapture and a quick return--you go through the tribulation and then "up and back." There is a big problem with that and it is this: if all the regenerate people go up and come back, then how come when Christ comes back the first thing He does is separate the sheep from the goats--who are the sheep? See? who are the sheep? They can't be Christians because there aren't any left--they all got raptured. But if you move the rapture to the beginning of the seven years, then you have a seven year period in which people will be saved that will constitute the sheep at the end of the tribulation--understand?

So if you jam it all at the end--I see that as the major problem of the post-tribulational view--where do you get the sheep for the sheep and goat judgment, because if Christ takes all of us up and comes right back, then there aren't any sheep left--it's not going to be a problem to say, "You sheep come over and go into my kingdom, and you goats here..."--there aren't any sheep left, they have already been raptured and glorified and all set. That's the first problem.

2. 2 Thessalonians 2:1. The second problem, and I think that they have to face if they take a post-tribulation view is 2 Thessalonians 2:1--these are primary arguments--there are many others, but these are just ones that I'll give you quickly. 2 Thessalonians 2:1, and I think maybe that these are the two best arguments against a post-tribulation position. Some of you don't even know what I'm talking about--you just relax and do whatever you want and we will be back in a minute.

2 Thessalonians 2:1, "Now we beseech you brethren,” now listen, “By the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him.” "Jesus is coming,” says Paul to the Thessalonians, “and we will be gathered together unto him.” Episunagoge, gathering together. Its used one other time in the New Testament, that’s Hebrews 10:25. And in Hebrews 10:25 it says “forsake not the sunagogoge, the assembling of yourselves together.” It is a word reserved in the New Testament for gathering together of believers. So, the Thessalonians Christians were saying, "Oh, are we already in the time of trouble, is it already too late. And he says Now wait a minute, we beseech you brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus and our, our specific gathering together to him, don’t be shaking let no man deceive you." And then he says, "I believe that after will come the day of the Lord. And then the falling away and the man of sin is revealed and all of that." But I see is the primary event the gathering together, a special gathering together, a special coming together of the church, a unique one separate from anything else. And I think Thessalonians 2:1 has a great amount of weight towards that end.

So, my belief is that the church does not go through the tribulation. And again I I would say that that’s just putting it together the best way I can, it’s a very difficult problem. There are many other reasons that I have tried to share with you and I stand on that ground and we’ll find out sooner or later. And I feel like Dr. Saucy who said, “I know there are some errors in my Theology, I just wish I knew where they were.” And there will be some somewhere and we’ll see whether that works out.

Added to Bible Bulletin Board's "MacArthur’s Questions and Answers" by:

Chosen

Anonymous said...

I know this is on the wrong post but I wanted to give you all the name of the boy who is fighting cancer.
His name is Seth.
That means "Prince" in Egyptian and as we all know it is the 3rd son of Adam and Eve--and it means "Appointed" in Hebrew.

Now you have his name to pray with.

Thanks.
Mom was in the office yesterday and a Christian patient prayed with her with my husband.
She seems to be OK., so I know God is answering prayers.

Chosen

Maryb said...

Chosen There is never a wrong place for a prayer request.

Anonymous said...

maryb: I will send you the article I wrote on the Rapture...UGM